The EU meetings

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The EU meetings

Post by LondonJonnyO on Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:13 am

Having read, and been in Paris during, the transcript from the meetings held on EU budgets and amendments to the Lisbon Treaty I am in a bouyant mood. This leaves the UK is a slightly disconnected area which allows us to work independently of the inner workings and making it easy for us to fully integrate or remove ourselves as appropriate.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by drive4show on Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:17 am

I heard the basics of last night's antics on the Beeb this morning, as a confirmed 'non Europhile' I think this leaves us in a stronger position but I'll need to study it a bit further first.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by navyblueshorts on Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:20 am

Don't know enough about it. One thing I am sure of is I don't trust any politician further than I can throw them; they'd say black was white if it suited them.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Del_Boy on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:16 am

Nice to see someone stick up for good old blighty where the EU is concerned

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Bob_the_job on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:19 am

Del_Boy wrote:Nice to see someone stick up for good old blighty where the EU is concerned

I think it's Bounty more then blighty.. and I'm not sure if we're in control of the ship or if we've just be ditched in the longboat. Next stop.. Pitcairn Islands.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by navyblueshorts on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:35 am

Bob_the_job wrote:
Del_Boy wrote:Nice to see someone stick up for good old blighty where the EU is concerned

I think it's Bounty more then blighty.. and I'm not sure if we're in control of the ship or if we've just be ditched in the longboat. Next stop.. Pitcairn Islands.
And therein lies the problem. None of these 'experts' or politicians have a clue what'll happen. Like the avatar btw Bob!
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Del_Boy on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:38 am

Bob_the_job wrote:
Del_Boy wrote:Nice to see someone stick up for good old blighty where the EU is concerned

I think it's Bounty more then blighty.. and I'm not sure if we're in control of the ship or if we've just be ditched in the longboat. Next stop.. Pitcairn Islands.

Keeping more cash generated in blighty in blighty rather than taxed to put in EU coffers can only be a good thing

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by diggers on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:46 am

The only time people get pro Europe these days is when the RC comes around. We love our cousins on the continent then.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Del_Boy on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:49 am

diggers wrote:The only time people get pro Europe these days is when the RC comes around. We love our cousins on the continent then.

To be honest I'm not even pro Europe then

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by drive4show on Sat Dec 10, 2011 4:50 am

diggers wrote:The only time people get pro Europe these days is when the RC comes around. We love our cousins on the continent then.

Yes indeed, that is the ONLY time we like them.

Apart from the hotties on Spanish and Greek beaches of course.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by diggers on Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:00 am

Still at least everyone who disliked the fact we had two centre parties can stop moaning, Cameron is definitely taking the Torys on a big right turn. Just goes to show when you look like a smug Tory twat you usually are one.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by 1grumpygolfer on Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:43 am

Diggers love how you're playing to super with the avatar

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by diggers on Sat Dec 10, 2011 5:57 am

Ill do anything to keep that Daily Mail reading, Eldrick Woods loving man happy.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Mercurio on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:19 am

I really don't foresee any significant problems for the UK.

Switzerland's existence is evidence of that.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by LondonJonnyO on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:26 am

With switerzland their banking regulations and the nature of their transactions mean they wouldnt be impacted by any eu taxes to the ectent london would. I can foresee large scale changes in the eu shortly. With ireland dropping out of the eurozone if they force them to increase corporation tax for a start
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Mercurio on Sat Dec 10, 2011 6:36 am

LondonJonnyO wrote:With switerzland their banking regulations and the nature of their transactions mean they wouldnt be impacted by any eu taxes to the ectent london would. I can foresee large scale changes in the eu shortly. With ireland dropping out of the eurozone if they force them to increase corporation tax for a start

What I meant is 'if the UK gets sidelined in Europe' there won't be any significant issues. Switzerland aren't in the EU and they do OK.

I completely disagree with the Tobin Tax. It was calculated to raise €53bn a year - €40bn of which would have come from the UK!

The banking crisis wasn't the cause of countries spending what they didn't have and them cheating and lying to get into Euro.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Del_Boy on Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:08 am

It's far easier for the French and especially the Germans to try and take cash out of the uk rather than dip into their own pockets to bail out their currency

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by LondonJonnyO on Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:11 am

Thats a reason why I hate the socialists. They give it all to other countries.

If, as a result of this, we get our money back (or stop giving it away at any rate) and get to close our borders, and get to sell bendy bananas again then hoo-feckin-ray
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Del_Boy on Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:16 am

Yes, there are interesting times ahead. No hope of getting a refund from the EU though.

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by gaelgowfer on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:36 am

I really don't understand why the europhiles are so upset by the UK veto-ing. We weren't even in the bleedin' euro. Sign away our sovereignty. Never!


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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Mercurio on Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:46 am

gaelgowfer wrote:I really don't understand why the europhiles are so upset by the UK veto-ing. We weren't even in the bleedin' euro. Sign away our sovereignty. Never!


Has the UK actually really vetoed? Didn't we just decide not to join the other nations? I'm not sure deciding not to do what others want to do is actually a veto? We haven't stopped them going ahead with their plan.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by gaelgowfer on Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:01 am

Well, that's what they were saying last night in that Cameron had used his veto.

To be honest, it was all a bit meoldramatic. Cameron must have known he'd likely be the only one who'd pronounce absolutely. It has to be remembered of course that the countries other than 'the seventeen' are not automatically a shoe-in for this new austere regime. They've gone away 'tae have a wee think aboot it' perhaps as a result of Cameron's early pronouncement?

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by super_realist on Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:02 am

diggers wrote:Ill do anything to keep that Daily Mail reading, Eldrick Woods loving man happy.


Excellent avatar Diggers, now if only we can persuade Gael to take on Grotbags then we've got a full set.

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by gaelgowfer on Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:07 am

s_r, I would ... perhaps ... if I knew how to do it!

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Del_Boy on Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:04 am

gaelgowfer wrote:I really don't understand why the europhiles are so upset by the UK veto-ing. We weren't even in the bleedin' euro. Sign away our sovereignty. Never!


They are upset because good old blighty hasn't signed up to paying 40 billion per annum into eu coffers in the form of a finance transaction tax nor has blighty agreed to contribute towards the 200 billion raised to go into the IMF coffers.

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by diggers on Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:57 pm

The UK does the majority of its trade with Europe, and an awful lot with Germany and France. I think some kind of deal would have been a better option rather than the splendid isolation stance.
But then the last few days of the golf boards have shown how difficult it is to reach an agreement when everyone insists that they are in the right.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Maverick1980 on Sun Dec 11, 2011 8:44 pm

IMO great move by DCAM!!! Tried that in a GMAC accent looks crap but works better than the mcdowell version as he isn't a mac!

Anyway! Point is I think Camerons done the right thing fed up seeing this nations money disapper into the EU abyss that does nothing but prop up the french economy and bail out places like greece and cypress that have blown their loads big time.

Keep more UK money in the borders and we may actually seems somethings here benefit rather than seeing the IMF and EU councils getting their new home that is costing billions to build with the majority of its funds being raped and pillaged from these shores
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by gaelgowfer on Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:09 pm

diggers wrote:The UK does the majority of its trade with Europe, and an awful lot with Germany and France. I think some kind of deal would have been a better option rather than the splendid isolation stance.
But then the last few days of the golf boards have shown how difficult it is to reach an agreement when everyone insists that they are in the right.

We're not in splendid isolation at all. Far from it. In so far as trading is concerned, all countries will still have to abide by the rules laid down by the treaty to which the UK remains signed up to. Not only that but it will have to seen to be fair and equitable. At the end of the day, this is the euro's mess, not ours. They have to sort it out for themselves. Besides which, there is no guarantee this europlan will work. I hope it does because in time, our banks will hopefully be able to retrieve some of our money.

Don't forget that Europe is not the only trading market. The south american market is on the up and up and then there's China. Yes, Europe is important but, inside or out, they still need us as well!

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by diggers on Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:19 pm

gaelgowfer wrote:
diggers wrote:The UK does the majority of its trade with Europe, and an awful lot with Germany and France. I think some kind of deal would have been a better option rather than the splendid isolation stance.
But then the last few days of the golf boards have shown how difficult it is to reach an agreement when everyone insists that they are in the right.

We're not in splendid isolation at all. Far from it. In so far as trading is concerned, all countries will still have to abide by the rules laid down by the treaty to which the UK remains signed up to. Not only that but it will have to seen to be fair and equitable. At the end of the day, this is the euro's mess, not ours. They have to sort it out for themselves. Besides which, there is no guarantee this europlan will work. I hope it does because in time, our banks will hopefully be able to retrieve some of our money.

Don't forget that Europe is not the only trading market. The south american market is on the up and up and then there's China. Yes, Europe is important but, inside or out, they still need us as well!

Maybe, I guess we will find out just how much they need is in the next few years.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Del_Boy on Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:11 am

Both blighty and Europe need each other but a partnership is give and take on both sides. Through my eyes, so far, the partnership has been pretty much one way Europe taking Blighty giving. Yes Europe as a whole is our biggest trading partner but they only buy from us because they are getting a good deal.

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by ChrisGG on Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:25 am

Del_Boy wrote:Both blighty and Europe need each other but a partnership is give and take on both sides. Through my eyes, so far, the partnership has been pretty much one way Europe taking Blighty giving. Yes Europe as a whole is our biggest trading partner but they only buy from us because they are getting a good deal.

That's pretty much how I see it as well
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Rats on Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:44 am

Would be nice to see the gravy train for the Kinnocks and their ilk curtailed. Am of an age where I actually had a vote on whether to join the common market and, though I voted against, I still had no idea that Brussels would escalate to such an extent that our identity has been so watered down.

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by diggers on Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:46 am

I'm really glad Cameron went to bat for the bankers, they really deserve it.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Del_Boy on Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:55 am

diggers wrote:I'm really glad Cameron went to bat for the bankers, they really deserve it.

More likely the financial transaction tax is a tax coming straight off the bankers bottom line so less corporation tax for Blighty

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by diggers on Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:07 am

Del_Boy wrote:
diggers wrote:I'm really glad Cameron went to bat for the bankers, they really deserve it.

More likely the financial transaction tax is a tax coming straight off the bankers bottom line so less corporation tax for Blighty

The city isnt the only way this country generates revenue, far from it.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Del_Boy on Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:16 am

diggers wrote:
Del_Boy wrote:
diggers wrote:I'm really glad Cameron went to bat for the bankers, they really deserve it.

More likely the financial transaction tax is a tax coming straight off the bankers bottom line so less corporation tax for Blighty

The city isnt the only way this country generates revenue, far from it.

You're right but the city seems to be one of the most of highest taxed industries

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by diggers on Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:32 am

I think the importance of the finance sector is overplayed to the country by the media, sure its great but its only a small part of the countries revenue. Cameron thinks its important still though.
Be interesting to see how this all plays out with the coalition. Lets see if the Lib Dems can find their values again.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Noshankingtonite on Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:10 am

gaelgowfer wrote:s_r, I would ... perhaps ... if I knew how to do it!

Download an image from tinterweb and save it onto t'computer. Then go into Profile and click on Avatar and browse and Bob's yer Auntie clown
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by gaelgowfer on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:18 pm

Duly noted NST. Ta muchly.

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by gaelgowfer on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:20 pm

diggers wrote:I think the importance of the finance sector is overplayed to the country by the media, sure its great but its only a small part of the countries revenue. Cameron thinks its important still though.
Be interesting to see how this all plays out with the coalition. Lets see if the Lib Dems can find their values again.

I doubt that. Any coalition deal struck was bound to have taken into account the tories views on things european. Why else would they be acting so wet in their response?

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by diggers on Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:38 pm

Have you read this mornings papers Gael ? Dont think Clegg could have really been any more damning of Camerons actions.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by Del_Boy on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:16 pm

diggers wrote:Have you read this mornings papers Gael ? Dont think Clegg could have really been any more damning of Camerons actions.

this afternoons gathering in the Commons should be fun.

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by diggers on Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:57 pm

Should defintely be fiesty Del Boy. Another question in all of this of course is how much is was to do with Sarkozy simply out manouvering Cameron and leaving him with little option but to big himself up as standing form when possibly that wasnt his preferred option.
I guess we will never know the full truth, well not until they all write their memoirs anyway. It must be an especially happy Monday for the Monday Club today.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by LondonJonnyO on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:11 pm

fact is that the manufacturing base over here is pretty much non-existant anyway. So exports to europe are minimal on that front. And there must be other consumers of the goods that are exported.

An interesting stat is that something like 90% of the fish we catch is exported... but most of it to places like africa. Hardly going to affect that particular industry.

My own view is that we put in a hell of a lot more than we get out. And are the only idiots to implement all the daft laws and directives.

better off out I think.
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Re: The EU meetings

Post by gaelgowfer on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:14 pm

diggers wrote:Have you read this mornings papers Gael ? Dont think Clegg could have really been any more damning of Camerons actions.

He can huff and puff all he likes, any issues over europe would have been thrashed out during pre-coalition mtgs. Incidentally, wonder if Cleggy has seen the polls? Not really too much doubt about what the brits want and it aint the wet route!

In any event, we've already had Labour signing up to amendments to a treaty for which it didn't have a mandate. That was bad enough. To sign up to a broken eurozone would have been a certifiable course of action and ... we would have had to have paid for the privilege as well!

The reasons France and Germany want us to sign up is purely for political gain and nothing more.

Besides which, where's the bleedin' mandate to take such a course of action?


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Re: The EU meetings

Post by gaelgowfer on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:36 pm

diggers wrote:Should defintely be fiesty Del Boy. Another question in all of this of course is how much is was to do with Sarkozy simply out manouvering Cameron and leaving him with little option but to big himself up as standing form when possibly that wasnt his preferred option.
I guess we will never know the full truth, well not until they all write their memoirs anyway. It must be an especially happy Monday for the Monday Club today.

Outmanoeuvred? Carefully staged by Cameron more like. Cameron must have realised beforehand his conditions wouldn't be met by a politically motivated franco-german union. I think all that pre-mtg bluster was was more about trying to give encouragement to other countries not directly involved to use their veto.

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Re: The EU meetings

Post by LondonJonnyO on Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:40 pm

Another thought occurs. People that say Europe are our biggest market... They can't afford to buy anything anyway.
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Re: The EU meetings

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